Environment, Communications and the Arts Committee
Budget Estimates for 2008-09 (Supplementary hearings)

Senator LUDLAM-I just wanted to raise the issue briefly of community broadcasters in the transition through to digital-essentially, just some broadbrush details. Being a senator from WA, it is really a little bit unfortunate-greatly unfortunate-to see Channel 31 fall over in the last couple of months despite assurances that they would be supported. One of the biggest issues facing the community broadcasting sector obviously is surviving the transmission to digital. Can you just give us a bit of an overview as to how community TV stations in the metro markets in Lismore are being resourced to do that?

Dr Pelling-I think at this stage the answer is that that issue is being considered in the context of the digital switch-over decisions which are being made by the government at the moment. There has been a range of discussions that we and, I believe, the minister's office have had with those community broadcasters on this issue over a while. But it is still a policy matter which is before the government.

Senator LUDLAM-I will direct some questions to the minister on that basis in a moment. So is it not something that is under active consideration by the department in the context of the switch-over?

Dr Pelling-It is under active consideration in developing advice for the government on this issue. Our role is to advise the government on this issue. We have been advising the government on this issue, but the government has yet to make a decision on precisely a way forward on this.

Senator LUDLAM-Minister, would you be able to give us a bit of an update?

Senator Conroy-We have been having extensive consultations with the community broadcasting sector, both TV and radio. We are very conscious of their need to get a transition path. For 11½ years, unfortunately, there was not a transition path outlined by the previous government. I am sure you would understand that. There are no easy solutions to this, otherwise I am sure it would have been solved. So we have been working through a variety and considering a variety of options to assist in the transition, but at this stage we have not been able to resolve some of the difficulties. But we are confident that we will find an outcome that will deliver an enhanced community broadcasting outcome.

Senator LUDLAM-Not to oversimplify, you say that there are not easy solutions. Wouldn't the easy solution be to provide community broadcasters with access to the transmission equipment, the multiplexes? I would have thought it is just an allocation of spectrum off the spectrum that has been set aside for non-commercial and innovative programming and so on. Is it not a fairly-

Senator Conroy-There have been a variety of proposals put forward by, at various stages, community broadcasters. They have advocated at various stages what is called the hot swap-that is, just turn off the analogue and immediately introduce the digital signal in the same spectrum space. That was advocated over the last 12 months. That has been advocated to me by a number of community broadcasting TV-

Senator LUDLAM-And shut the analog transmitters off?

Senator Conroy-Yes, a hot swap is literally just bang, bang-switch off analog signals and start the digital signal. Despite being advocated by community TVs, that is no longer their position. They do not support that.

Senator LUDLAM-That is good.

Senator Conroy-As I have said, this was something they put to me. Then after considering it and thinking about it over six or eight months or nine months, they have then come back to me and said, ‘No, we don't want to go down that path.' So this is not a simple solution.

Senator LUDLAM-There is a bill before us now obviously which, I think, is going to committee over the next couple of weeks around digital switch-over for television stations. Are you a bit concerned that the community broadcasters are going to be falling behind?

Senator Conroy-This is the region-by-region bill you are talking about?

Senator LUDLAM-Yes, in essence, but it is going to impact on, I think, the five community broadcasters in metro markets and the one in Lismore, which is the only regional one that is still transmitting. Are you concerned that, in the context that we are setting some hard and fast targets fairly shortly for switch-over, the community sector still does not appear to have a simple path to get digital transmission?

Senator Conroy-Just in terms of the switch-off-I am not sure if you have seen it or do not have handy the press release in front of you-we are moving through regions. My geography is not great, but New South Wales-I think Lismore is in New South Wales-regions are not dealt with until 1 January to 30 June 2012.

So there is no impact at all on what could be described as the only regional community TV. The current bill is not specifically dealing with community television. It allows us to set some instruments for these sorts of time lines and dates that I am talking about. But there is no suggestion that we would be looking at regional New South Wales until 2012 and there is no suggestion of doing any capital city until-just confirming this-2013. So we are a long way from facing a switch-off issue in the direct sense.

Senator LUDLAM-I understand that, but I would put to you that it was a key factor in the collapse of Channel 31 in Perth.

Senator Conroy-No, I would have to disagree with you entirely there. I am willing to go into chapter and verse on it, but that is simply not true.

Senator LUDLAM-It was put to us by folk working at the station that because they did not have a guaranteed path to digital transmission they did not know where the funding was coming from and that other investors were not willing to put money in-

Senator Conroy-No, there are two separate issues there. There is funding and then there is spectrum available. Let me be clear again: that is not correct. In fact, the white knight that was invited in by Channel 31 in Perth put out a press release some very short period after the white knight actually had a look at the books and made it quite clear that he had not been given all of the information about the true state of the books and he withdraw. This was a financial calamity of its own making.
In terms of funding, we do not fund directly any of the community stations around the country. A number of state governments do and do not in different ways. I wrote to the minister in the previous Court government indicating that I was confident that we would get an outcome ultimately for community television-

Senator LUDLAM-Sorry, was that the Carpenter government?

Senator Conroy-Sorry, the Carpenter government, not Court; thank you. I wrote to the minister. I had a number of conversations with the minister about it and was very supportive. In the same way, I have written to the South Australian minister and I think the Queensland minister indicating that the federal government believes that we will find a solution for community television in the digital world. But any suggestion whatsoever that there was a lack of path is not supported by the evidence. It is not supported by the white knight who came in, had a look at the books and then rode off into the sunset-and this is all on the public record. So I appreciate the commentary that you have been given, but there are a number of active potential- and you might want to ask ACMA about this when they come to the table-replacements for the former management.

I am confident that in a relatively short time we will end up with community TV broadcasting again in Perth. If there is no business case because of lack of certainty, then no-one would start one up, and that is not the case. So I think that some people have tried to make the point that they want to blame someone else, but I think even a person who was willing to put up a couple of hundred thousand dollars of their own money to assist it through a difficult period after having a look at the books walked away saying, ‘Just a minute. It's much worse than I was told.'

Senator LUDLAM-Do you have a deadline or a time line whereby you or the department want to have a path for community television in place?

Senator Conroy-The sooner we are able to do that the better.

Senator LUDLAM-Is that not-

Senator Conroy-You should not misunderstand that we have a commitment to deliver an outcome. We are meeting regularly and extensively with the community TV sector. I look forward to meeting with whoever takes up the new licence where I will give them exactly the same reassurances that I gave the previous management. I will show them the letters I wrote to the previous government. I am happy to write to the new Western Australian government to set out the case again. We will find a solution for them.

CHAIR-We will now break for afternoon tea.