Senator LUDLAM-Another question on notice, which did not arise from estimates but was formally submitted through the regular process, has not yet been answered by the department relates to the rendition of Mr Mamdouh Habib. In an estimates hearing on 4 June 2008, Defence representatives stated that the department ‘Has no record of involvement through meetings or through the provision of advice in the matter of the rendition of Mr Mamdouh Habib'. My question relates to a subsequent freedom of information request which was lodged with Defence and for which the department quoted a cost of $107, 145 for 1,038 hours of labour to reproduce 85,418 pages. If you have no evidence or documentation on this matter, as was stated in estimates, I am not clear as to what exactly that freedom information request is denying or what this documentation is. Senator Faulkner-You would appreciate that this is a starting point. It is hardly an inconsistency between stating that Defence might undertake an exhaustive examination of records and then come to a conclusion that they might have no involvement or record of involvement in such a matter. I am no expert on this. I think there is a little bit of a logical inconsistency, which I thought I might point out to you in the question.

Senator LUDLAM-I am sure the applicant for that particular FOI request was not interested in receiving thousands of pages of documents showing an absence of something, so I do not think there is an inconsistency there at all. There is obviously a huge volume of-

Senator Faulkner-We will have to agree to disagree, but I am happy for officials to assist you where they can. I think if you reflect on the Hansard record, the point that I make is not unreasonable and a perfectly proper one. When you consider such an exhaustive examination of documents or records and then come to a particular conclusion, this is not unusual.

Senator LUDLAM-The department said they had no record of involvement, but then they are saying that to check whether they have a record of involvement they will need to check 84,000 pages of documents. You do not see an inconsistency there?

Senator Faulkner-I think the question, as you asked it there, contained a logical inconsistency. In fact, there is no inconsistency in stating that Defence has no record of involvement in the matter of rendition of Mr Habib and in having to check a large number of documents in response to an FOI request. I can see the logic of what I am saying, and I can see some illogic in what you are saying, but, regardless of that, if officials at the table can assist you, I am very, very happy to allow that to occur. It is just that perhaps you have a different view of what is logical to what I have. I, as the minister at the table, merely wanted to make that comment to you, as I heard your question. But, anyway, ask a follow-on question. We have got some expert witnesses here who might be able to assist you.

CHAIR-Senator Ludlam, you might go to the crux of the matter, because it is now 6 pm and there are officials from Defence Housing Australia waiting to answer your questions.

Senator LUDLAM-I will go to the crux of the matter: does the department have any record of involvement in the extradition of Mamdouh Habib?

Mr Warner-Perhaps I could answer that. We maintain our position that we have no record of involvement, through meetings or through the provision of advice, on the rendition of Mr Habib.

Senator LUDLAM-Okay. Just to go to the matter that the minister raised just previously, and this has been spelled out in quite a bit of detail in a question that was submitted on notice-not through the estimates process , but through the chamber-that is now overdue and has not been returned to my office. The applicant has not asked to be provided with all this documentation showing that nothing exists; he has been asked whether there is a connection, and yet the department is quoting that they will provide him with 85,000 pages worth of material. The applicant is not interested in being provided with that if there is no evidence in there.

Senator Faulkner-If it assists you on this, I am advised that a draft answer is now with the Minister for Defence, so progress has obviously been made in terms of answering your question. I will make sure that the minister and the minister's office is apprised of the fact that you have raised the matter again today, but I can assure you that officials advise me that a draft answer is with the minister now.

Senator LUDLAM-Thanks, Minister. I will-

Mr Merchant-I might also add, if I could, that there has been further correspondence between the department and Ms O'Brien, who put in the request. She has very helpfully narrowed the terms of her request, particularly the time period for which she is interested in getting documentation. That makes the task of meeting her request much more manageable from our point of view, and there has been further advice given to Ms O'Brien very recently.

Senator LUDLAM-Thanks, Mr Merchant and thanks, Minister. I will leave it there.